The Traded Life

A Doctor And A Coach: Teaching From Both Sides with Jon Mossey

Episode Notes

In episode 49 of The Traded Life, Greg Michelman welcomes special guest Jon Mossey, a clinical psychologist, coach, podcast host, and author. They discuss the growth they've both experienced and the exciting projects they're currently working on, such as hosting podcasts and writing books. They reflect on their journey and marvel at the opportunities they have to share their knowledge and experiences with others.

Tune in to gain insights for personal and physical growth as well as having that sense of accountability.


[00:02:00] Accountability and Growth.

[00:04:43] Psychology in Everyday Life.

[00:09:26] Traditional Psychotherapy and Self-Disclosure.

[00:13:19] Vulnerability as a Superpower.

[00:15:50] Coaching vs. Therapy.

[00:23:12] Discipline and Ownership.

[00:26:01] Striving for Personal Growth.

[00:32:29] Identity and Habit Formation.

[00:35:39] What is a Healthy Person?

[00:39:59] Physical Appearance and Credibility.

[00:44:56] Quality of Life and Excuses.

In this episode, Greg Michelman and Jon Mossey explore the concept that discipline leads to freedom. They explain that when certain behaviors become ingrained in our routines, we no longer have to consciously think about them. This creates mental space and energy that can be directed towards personal growth, exploration, and trying new things. They also discuss the importance of understanding human nature and how the brain works. By having a deeper understanding of psychology, individuals can gain an advantage in comprehending their environment and effectively navigating various situations. 

Another topic covered in the episode is the significance of measurable goals and consistent habits. Greg and Jon emphasize the difference between therapy and coaching, highlighting that coaching focuses on setting specific goals and implementing daily habits. By having clear goals and consistent habits, individuals can track their progress and make meaningful changes in their lives. 



Greg Michelman




Jon Mossey




Fight Like A Mother FU%$&R:

Doc Jon Mossey:

Episode Transcription

Intro/Outro00:05 - 00:15
This is The Trade of Life, a show committed to helping you better understand that you can trade the life you have for the life you were born to live. Let's dive in. 



Greg Michelman00:21 - 01:02
Welcome to the show. Another special guest for you guys today. Me and this dude go back a bunch of years already. We met inside of the Lions Den coaching network, and we've kind of followed each other through different coaching networks. It was a little bit of a gap in between the time we kind of like saw each other and connected and then saw each other recently and kind of reconnected and. I mean, what does my guy not do? He's in the coaching space. He's super smart. He's a clinical psychologist by day. He's a coach by night. He's a podcast host. He's an author. I mean, there are so many things. And we're going to dive deep into this thing. Welcome to the show, my brother, Jon Mossey. What's up, bro? 



Jon Mossey01:03 - 01:22
Greg, thanks for having me, brother. Yeah, man, it's it's great to be seeing you again. And like you said, we go way back and it's been awesome seeing the growth that we've had kind of parallel lives these last three, four years. And from where we started and now doing all these great things by having podcasts and writing books. I mean, who are we to be doing this? Right. 



Greg Michelman01:22 - 01:59
So it is crazy. You know, that's the thing about the people that I still connect with from the band that I think is so cool. It's like watching everybody's evolution over the last bunch of years. I mean, I joined the den, I think it's over five years ago already, and I'm still in there, but I'm not really in there. But it's like when you when you see people that you came up with, like the Anthony Hudson's of the world yourself, there's a bunch of other guys that are still, you know, we're either there or aren't there. But looking at the at the progression that they've had is it's pretty wild, man. Just a testament to coaching and how important being in these circles are. 



Jon Mossey02:00 - 02:28
Absolutely. I mean, when you have the accountability of these kind of groups, and the, you know, people that are forcing you to be consistent and making you do the things that, you know, you said you were going to do and making sure you do it. And if you don't do it, giving the tough love of why didn't you follow through? You said you were gonna do that. Okay, why hasn't that gotten done yet? It's just, it's great, because you got people that are just going to hold you to a higher standard. And, you know, iron sharpens iron. So when you got those kind of people around you, great things are gonna happen. 



Greg Michelman02:29 - 04:01
And it's really hard to not do the things you need to do. And as much as I feel that way, there are a lot of people that. Their evolution hasn't been the same, you know, and then some people come and go and it always interests me, like I'm always curious what those people are up to. uh, you know, not because of any other reason than like, damn man, this thing, it works so well for me. And I don't know if it's just, you know, how people, you know, cause everybody aligns with different people differently. So, you know, for all I know, they went to different coaching groups because as you and I both know in the coaching sphere, I feel like it's, You know, there's so many of us, first of all. And then at the same time, there's so many people in the world and not everybody vibes with my style. And maybe there's same person that doesn't vibe with me, vibes with you. And so people have to find their space. I mean, you and I both know from our time with Sean that he isn't always the easiest nut to crack. And a lot of people get, you know, they think they're coming in one way and then he has a way of rubbing them the wrong way and they find their way out the door. But, you know, for me, he was a he was a home run of a coach, man. I mean, he hit right into the part of my brain that I needed him to probably similar to how you are in your other life. You know what I mean? Where you have to listen and understand, give them the guidance that they need and give them the structure that they need or give them the tools that they need to succeed. Uh, you know, mentally, because that's where I was at when I met him. So I would like to give everybody a little bit of a background, you know, where kind of how you came up and even, even down to like how you got into these groups too, with, with what you do, you know, in your, in your professional life. 



Jon Mossey04:02 - 07:20
Okay. Well, I mean, I've been a licensed psychologist since 2005, you know, went through a doctoral program at Indiana State and, you know, I was there on campus for four years, moved down to Florida for my pre-doctoral internship, which is the last year of the doctoral program where you're working full time, doing everything a psychologist does, but under supervision. And then, I've been down here in Florida and the Tampa Bay area pretty much ever since. And so, you know, mental health and the psychology of things is just always fascinating me because there's psychology behind everything that you do. I mean, it doesn't matter what area of your life. I mean, there's psychology in relationships, there's psychology in business, there's psychology in fitness. You know, everything that a person does in their day-to-day life, there's psychology behind it. I mean, you turn on the TV, there's psychology in advertising. So just the more understanding you have of human nature and the way the brain works and the mind works and how we process information, it's going to be an advantage for you going forward. It's going to, you know, put your leg up on everybody else when you're trying to understand your surroundings and manipulate and negotiate and everything else that's coming at you. And so it's always been something that's been fascinating to me. And I've been fortunate to have a nice career here in Florida. Of course, Florida, we've got a large geriatric population. That's a niche I fell into, you know, contracting with local skilled nursing facilities and assisted living facilities. It's been a nice career, but about four years ago, I just, I started to realize that, you know what, it's time for me to do something more. I just, you know, I felt something was missing. You know, I felt like I was just kind of getting to the point where things were repetitive. I was kind of turning the crank and it's like, okay, well, I went all those years for school and this is all I'm going to do with that. Like you just, you got that feeling like, you know, my purpose has got to be more than this. I mean, this is great. It's what I'm doing is awesome. It's noble, it's helping people, but how can I help people on a greater scale and do something that's going to be even more meaningful? You know, and I also, rather than just be remediating problems, I wanted to be able to take people from good to great. So, you know, I found Sean Whalen's Lion's Den back in 2019, and that's where I met you and a lot of the other amazing folks. It's a different approach to what typical psychotherapy is because it's a lot more direct and the same kind of things that I would have done as a therapist. They don't really, when you know the game, it's the same message. So you need a different message and a different approach and everything else. just different means of accountability, whereas a psychotherapist might say, oh, everybody's going to naturally, if you show them warmth and genuineness and unconditional positive regard, they're going to naturally self-actualize and become this great person. And in the coaching sphere, they're going to tell you, no, you've got to do the work. You've got to make changes. You've got to you know, have some radical honesty and if, you know, if nothing changes, nothing changes. And so having that accountability and to stop making excuses and everything else, it was just something that really resonated with me, got me pointed in the right direction. I stopped making excuses. I stopped using the word someday, which is why my book was titled Fuck Someday, because I was the person saying, someday I'm going to do this, someday I'm going to do that. You know, and some days, the day of the week that never comes, you've probably seen the meme up there that says, some days where dreams go to die. You know, all those some days that we have, you know, you know, people are sitting around there, you know, drinking a case of PBR in their driveway, getting grandiose thoughts about all the things they're going to do. And then the next day they wake up hungover and they go back to doing the same shit over and over and over again. 



Greg Michelman07:20 - 07:21
Nothing ever changes. 



Jon Mossey07:24 - 08:00
And then you get to New Year's Eve and you're like, this year is going to be my year. I'm going to kick ass. I'm going to crush it. And, you know, everybody's going to hustle and grind. And then you get to that same point next year and you wonder why nothing's changed because you haven't changed your habits. You haven't changed your mindset. You haven't changed your expectations. Or, you know, Ed Milet talks about the, analogy of the thermostat. And so you haven't set the thermostat higher for yourself. And so when you just if you can have the same expectations and the same habits, you know, just it's like the definition of insanity. You're doing the same things over and over again. You're not going to get different results. It's just not going to happen. 



Greg Michelman08:00 - 08:27
Yeah. I got to ask you, though, because my wife is also in that clinical psychology sphere. And one of the conversations her and I had is she didn't, she, she went, she started her, um, what do they call that? Not residency. You were just talking about it before. I forgot the name for it. Oh, internship? No, she did her internship. She got her master's. She went. working under somebody, doing her clinicals. 



Jon Mossey08:27 - 08:30
Oh, like a residency or a fellowship. Fellowship. 



Greg Michelman08:30 - 09:24
Yeah. So but she found out real fast that she really didn't enjoy that part of the job, but she liked helping people. She liked the aspect of helping people, but didn't love speaking to clients, things like that. And I always wonder, because now that I've been in the, because I went to psychologists my whole life, and I'm not saying it didn't work. It worked at times, but I never had the breakthroughs I had until I started working with a coach. And maybe the directives are a little bit different. For someone like you, who went to the schooling, who was helping people on the clinical side, and then you find coaching, right? Is it conflicting for you to see this side and then this side and then do they mesh well together for you or is there conflict in how you learned it on this side and how you're learning it new over the last four years, if you understand the question, you know what I mean? 



Jon Mossey09:25 - 12:49
Yes, it is very different. Because in traditional psychotherapy, you are instructed to kind of be a blank slate, you're not really supposed to do much self disclosure, you're supposed to, you know, pretty much reflect everything back on them that they're saying, but you don't really share your experiences or say, you know, this is what I did, you know, you just that's not something you do. And And so having to do that, that was part of what was keeping me stuck was I felt like as a psychologist, even in my own personal life, even when I wasn't seeing patients, I felt like I had to give that air that everything in my life was perfect, that I was 10 feet tall. I was bulletproof. I had no cracks in my armor. I had all the answers. You know, I couldn't ask for help. I mean, you know, I was afraid if I showed that I needed help with something, then, you know, people wouldn't trust me as a therapist. My credibility would go down the shitter. And so that was, of course, when you keep doing the same things over and over again, because you're not asking for that help. eventually you get stuck and you're wearing this mask and everything's okay when it's not. And, you know, we all struggle with things. We all bleed. We all put our pants on one leg at a time. And when you're struggling and then you're wearing that mask, it's exhausting. And you eventually start to hit a wall. And so that was something that was very eye-opening for me. Whereas in the coaching sphere, you can say, you know what, I'm going to coach you and I'm going to tell you what to do because you know what, this worked for me. most of us that are coaching, our clan avatar is us, you know, a couple years to five, seven years ago. It's people that are going through the same things we are, the same phase of life, same struggles, you know, and our credibility is what it is because we went through those things. We had the experience of having done it. And so we built that, we overcame it, whatever it was that that other person wants, we have that. And so you can say, you know, I did this. And so being able to self-disclose and being able to show the vulnerability and show people that, you know, yes, I might have the answers and things are going well for me now, but I wasn't always this way. You know, I struggle too. And that just builds your credibility with people. People trust you. And so I think one of the hardest things is sometimes as a psychologist, you're going in and you're coming in with this, you know, white lab coat on and you're all nicely dressed and people see you and you look like you've got everything, you know, this perfect life. And people are like, well, what is this person going to know about my struggles? Are they really going to understand what it's like been through? Whereas in coaching, you can say, yeah, I know what it's like. I've been there. I've been broke. I've been divorced. I've been bankrupt. I've struggled with this. I've had these kind of addictions or obsessive compulsive behaviors or whatever else it is. You know, I've had these struggles. I can feel, you know, I know what you've been through and this is what worked for me and this is how I can help you. And that's where the coaching is very powerful. And I think that's why a lot of us have had breakthroughs with that. And, you know, you took me, you take me to a psychotherapist, I'm going to know what they're doing. I know, I know the strategies, I know what's coming at me, you know, the questions, why they're going to say it. And so it's, it's not gonna work for me. Whereas coaching, you know, having not been a coach, you know, a lot of the questions that I'd be asked, Or the questions I'd be asked to ask myself, you know, it was different for me and it just brought me a whole new level of accountability and kept me from making excuses anymore. And it just, it really forced me to take ownership of things and say, you know what, you know, situation A, I fucked that up. Situation B went south. Situation C did not turn out as I wanted it to. What's the common denominator in all three of these? Oh shit, it's me. And that's a hard pill to swallow. Here's the nice thing. 



Greg Michelman12:49 - 15:04
I always wonder if these two things are going to cross over. Like, does the clinical side realize how big coaching has gotten because people are getting breakthroughs? And do they find a way because everything is so there's so much legality, so many legalities involved, I feel like, and red tape. that you have to be careful how you say things and what you do with your patients. We're on the coaching side, like you just said, you know, I don't have to go to school. You're not paying someone with a degree. You're not paying somebody. You're paying somebody, like you just said, for my real life experiences. So I'm basically helping you get through your real life experiences because you're, you're, you're going through something similar to me because it always seems so crazy now, like looking back at all the time I spent sitting on that couch, man, honestly, like it seems so stupid. Like I'm sitting here, you break me down to the time I was a fucking infant to find out every little detail before we even move forward. Well, I already know I'm fucked up from my childhood. Like, it's not like I need to pinpoint every, like, I know. Part of it was always like, oh, well, you got to find that one thing that's that flipped your mind around that made you, you know, a little bit on the crazier side or act out or do the things you're doing. Like, well, I get that. But like, how does it help me to just break me down to nothing to build me back up where in coaching? It's like, that shit happened to you, you know? Yeah. Acknowledge it. Now, how do you move forward? You know, and that's been more powerful for me. I don't have to sit there and go through my life. But now by default, I tell my life story to people because vulnerability is that superpower you were just talking about before, right? Like by me sharing all these things that happen to me, that might resonate with one or two people. And that's what you're looking to do. Right. You're looking to tell these stories to help people. So when the time comes, I come out and say, hey, it's official. Here's my funnel here. Check me out. But you're like, I've been following this guy for two years. I love his stories. I know what he's been through. Whereas on the psychology side, it's like it's it's totally black and white and cut and dry. I feel like, you know what I mean? There's all there's so many boundaries that you're allowed to cross if you're allowed to cross any. And that was her biggest You know, conflict that she had because she's like, well, I really want to get into the coaching space because there I can speak to people and actually help them as opposed to sitting here listening over and over and over. And it doesn't mean you are giving action steps, but it's completely different. 



Jon Mossey15:05 - 15:36
Exactly. Yeah. And I totally agree. It's, you know, I think a lot of times in therapy, I mean, people go to, you know, they'll go to therapy for years and years and years and years, you know, and they're listening and, you know, sometimes they're having the same conversation over and over again. And, you know, they're, they're rehashing old things, you know, and that's the thing. I mean, do you have to go back and revisit some of the things that happened to you? Yes. But, you know, the idea is not to keep reliving it. You already lived it once. You don't need to relive it. You know, you don't have to keep staying in that spot. 



Greg Michelman15:36 - 15:44
Just keeps making it darker and darker and darker and darker. You're trying to find some fucking light. I don't want to keep going into the deep down darkness, you know? Yeah. 



Jon Mossey15:44 - 17:22
I mean, you hear Stuwin say all the time, what got you here isn't going to get you there. And so you don't want to stay stuck in that. You need to revisit long enough to know why did things do, but once you know that, then it's a matter of, okay, you know, in coaching, you can say, okay, well, it's more problem focused and solution focused. It's like, okay, well, how, what are we going to do about it now? You know, this is our problem. This is our end result. How are we going to reverse engineering it? What are the habits? What are the skills that we're going to build? What are the habits and the routines and the things we're going to do on a daily basis that is going to make this better? We're not just going to listen. We're not going to talk about it over and over again. What are you going to do differently? What behaviors? you know, hard and fast, you know, and clinicians, you know, psychologists, you know, do that to some degree, too. But I think a lot of times it's more of a, you know, sit and listen. And, you know, a lot of people are going to their therapist and, you know, it's just having a conversation. They're not really setting, you know, good empirically based measurable goals. Right. And so, you know, with coaching, you can have those measurable goals. And it's like, well, what are you going to do differently daily and day out? What is your morning routine going to be? What time are you going to get up? How often are you going to exercise? What time are you going to do that? Are you going to meditate? Are you going to send messages? Are you going to write down five things that make you grateful every day? And so having those very cut and dried skills and habits that people can do consistently and do over time and build your real ironclad confidence, that's huge. Because if you set the right kind of goals for people and you set them up for people to win, You know, like Bradley says, confidence is memory of past successes. So you set people up so they can have wins in each day and you get to decide what the wins are. Yeah. And so as a coach, you can set people up to win. 



Greg Michelman17:22 - 18:52
And not only that, you can get in their ass when they're not doing the shit they're supposed to. Whereas when I come back to sit on your couch next week, it's like. Yeah, I didn't do the stuff I was supposed to. Well, let's figure out why. No, motherfucker, you want you came to me. You pay me. You want me to help you? You know, at least this is my position, because I come from the same thing. Like, this is no nonsense, man. This is your life. How bad do you want it? But we can be we can stand in a position of. No, get your ass to work. You know what I mean? Stop sitting on the sidelines. Don't come to me. Don't pay me if you are not ready to get get working, because what's the point? You just pay me to get more information. It's like going to these events. People go to the events and they're all great and they're all rah rah. And then you go home. You don't do shit about your life and you're stuck in the same place. And then the next year comes around. I see you at the same event and you're in the exact same place that you were when I left you. And then you wonder why, because the reality is at the end of the day, you need to take action in your life to make it what you want it to be. If you don't start making moves, it's hard to move forward. But if you don't, but if you take steps, even if they're small steps, at least you're moving towards something. But if you're on the treadmill, you're right back where you started. You got to you got to get off the treadmill and actually go for a long walk and see something and look at some surroundings. You know what I mean? Not knocking the treadmill. I'm just using it as a metaphor. Like people stand there, you walk and you walk and you walk. And when you're done after an hour, you're standing in the same fucking place you were when you started. And you wonder why, you know, right. Got to get moving. 



Jon Mossey18:53 - 20:01
And if you're not taking action, you don't even realize what you're missing out on. I mean, it's not until you take action, then you start developing new questions. I mean, you can tell if someone's doing the work by the questions that they ask you, because if they're not coming up with new questions or anything, you know they're not doing anything. If they're actually doing the work, they're going to have questions because they're going to hit you know, they're going to have pitfalls. They're going to hit roadblocks and things like that. And that's, and that's how you know somebody is doing the work. And so, yeah, you see people that are, they're either coming up to you all the time for advice and, you know, you tell them to do something, you give them some, you know, some tips and, you know, some free advice. And then they come up to you a little while later, they want more advice. And he's like, did you do the thing I told you to do? And no. And so, you know, we call those people ask holes because they ask for advice, they waste your time, and then they don't follow through. And those same ask holes are going to every personal development seminar, every conference. And, you know, like you said, you see them at every single one of them and they're all excited. They're leaving, they're all full of piss and vinegar, going to change the world. But you see them next year at the same event and nothing has changed. They're still in the same position because like I said, they don't have that bias towards action. You can't just consume, you have to create. And that's the part that people don't want to do. That's the part that people procrastinate on. So stupid. 



Greg Michelman20:01 - 21:00
Ryan calls them kangaroos, right? Like their their arms are just long enough to not fit in their pockets. Like they want the free information, but they never do any of the work. They're also not willing to stick their hands in their pockets and pay to work with somebody a lot of the time. You know what I mean? But that's a side that's kind of a side note. But. It's it's pretty wild. You know, I wanted to ask you, too, because, you know, we have been in this thing. Do you do you recognize over the last bunch of years that you've been doing a lot of this more self work as opposed to, you know, what you're doing before? Not that you weren't working on yourself, but I see you at the fitness. I see you, you know, been working really hard on your body over the last bunch of years. You know what I mean? Taking care of yourself. Was there one thing that you can point to or even multiple things that really helped you pivot and move away from, or maybe not move away, but move towards where you're actually trying to go, like towards your passions, towards your, can you pinpoint a moment in this journey that's kind of was like, oh shit, you know what, I've been doing this wrong all along. 



Jon Mossey21:01 - 25:29
I think, I mean, the thing that hits me so hard when you ask that question right now is back in 2019, after joining the Lion's Den, I hear everybody talking about, they're doing this thing called 75 hard. I'm like, what the fuck is 75 hard? And so I start looking up what it is. I mean, at first it sounds like it's all fitness stuff, but then when you read closer, it's not a fitness program. It's a mental toughness program. It's to build grit. It's to build discipline. And that's, you know, the discipline is the part that I was probably lacking the most. And, you know, and it's not that I hadn't had discipline before. I mean, I had done three Ironmans in the past. I mean, you have to have some discipline and you have to have some grit to do those kinds of things, but it wasn't consistent. It was like an all or none kind of thing. And, um, But as far as 75 hard, it was just like, when you've got to do all these things, 75 straight days, you have to follow the diet, no booze, two workouts daily, one of them outside, take the selfie, read the pages, drink the water, the gallon of water. And there's no room for error. I mean, you have to have a level of focus and there's no excuses and there's no, you know, kind of, there's no almost, you know, I hear people talk about doing 75 hard or 75 e-hard, so easy and 75, like these, the easy versions are 75 hard. I'm like, what the fuck are you talking about? There is no such thing. There's one 75 hard, that's it. You either did it or you didn't. And that's what I like. It's cut and dried. It's, you know, you check it off the list and you say, yes, I did it. No, I didn't. But in doing that, I went from being somebody that was overweight and used to make excuses. And then 75 hard doesn't care about your excuses. 75 hard doesn't care if you feel like it or not. 75 hard doesn't care if you're having a bad day. 75 hard doesn't care if your father just died right in the middle of it, like it happened to me back in 2020. And, you know, in the thirties or forties and, you know, back in October, my dad died right in the middle of it. And I was like, you know, I could have quit and nobody would have looked twice, you know, look crossways at me or anything. They would have thought, oh, for sure. And I was like, you know what, this is supposed to be hard. You know, I'm going to finish that in his honor, because he looked down at me and shake his head at me, first of all, and be like, what the fuck are you doing? You're not going to quit on account of me. You know, and secondly, it gave me something to focus on in a time where you don't feel like you can control anything. You can control this. And so it taught me discipline. It taught me to stop making excuses because people always make the excuse that, you know, they don't have time to do something or they don't have a chance to do something. And that's not it anymore. That's when you say, I don't have time or I don't have a chance to do something, that's code for it wasn't fucking important enough to you. Correct. And that's what I've learned to start saying is like, you know, if I didn't get something done, it's like, okay, it wasn't a high enough priority. It wasn't important enough to me. And so you're owning it, you know, and once again, it's that ownership piece, which is hard for people to do. But when you take that ownership, you're establishing cause and effect between you, your actions and your environment. And when you say, you know what, you know, that happened because of me and didn't turn out well, I can also impact things for the better. All of a sudden I have that internal locus of control. I can impact my environment for the better. I'm my own agent of change. I have human agency here. And that's the problem. A lot of people, you know, they're, they're reactive. They feel like they're controlled by other people, other factors. They're controlled by luck, by fate, you know, by the actions of others, everybody else's mercy. And that's called an external locus of control. Whereas if you feel you control your own destiny, that's an internal locus of control. And the beauty about an internal locus of control, the data doesn't lie. I mean, they've even done studies. And basically the people with an internal locus of control have lower incidence of depression, lower incidence of anxiety, better relationships, and they make more money. You're talking about your emotions, your relationships and your business, that's the trifecta right there. You have that internal locus of control because you're taking the ownership of things. You're owning the shit that happens around you. And so 75 hard helped me to do that. It helped me to take ownership, stop making excuses, become disciplined. You're taking the emotion out of the equation. Too often people let emotions dictate whether they're going to get things done or not. And if you take the emotion out of it and you just, you get it done anyway, that's the important thing. Motivation is gonna wax and wane. Discipline is what gets it done. The people who are winning, they're disciplined. They find a way to get it done regardless of what's happening around them. 



Greg Michelman25:29 - 32:17
Yeah, man. I mean, it's huge. Um, and I still, I mean, all of us still have struggles with discipline, you know what I mean? I think it's one of the hardest things, you know what I mean? Because there's so many exterior factors. And when you realize to not, when you, when you focus on not allowing externals to dictate what, what you're doing, your whole life changes, you know what I mean? And so that's, I think that's an honestly for me, I wouldn't say 75 hard was my biggest turnaround because I had been doing the work before I did that shit for the first time. But, All of these things, I think, kind of compile into the same thing. Like I realize there are people doing life way bigger than I am, and I want to live that life. Right. So it pushes you to be better every single day. I realized where I was falling short because you're in this sphere with people. And, you know, we talk about the sum of the five people you spend your time around. So it's the same thing. I happen to spend my time around thousands of people that are working, maybe not thousands, but at least hundreds of people that are striving to be better and better every single day. Right. Helps you, like you said, accountability. And then you learn about integrity. I mean, 75 hard is you have to be your integrity has to be at an all time high because how many people. Do you think out there say they finished, but didn't really finish? And in reality is, you know, like Andy says it all the time. He's like, you tell me looking at the pictures in that alone, you know, but you can also see by the disciplines that follow whether or not that person finished, finished to a T, you know what I mean? Because it's glaring. Seventy five days of doing those things every single day and not being and not waiting. If you're not a different person, something's wrong, you know, is most people can barely go a week without these things. And with drinking a gallon of water, it's it's a very hard thing to do. The funny thing about me, I'll just tell the listeners and you real quick, is that. I'm a little bit, I don't want to say the opposite, but when anybody puts a challenge in front of me, I ball to the wall and I will make sure I make it happen. It's the after effects of those challenges, whether it be physical or it's like I was in an outlaw motorcycle club for a while and that takes I mean, I'm not going to get into the politics of it, but it takes took me about a year and change by the time I got made prospect, became a member. And they ask a lot of you. I'm talking hours. I took time away from my family. I almost lost what's my now wife at the time because of it. My point is, once I have that focus of this goal to finish this thing, I'm all in. Like, I don't even I don't deviate. I don't I don't I don't get off of it. But once it's over, it's like, all right, I hit this thing. It's like, It's almost like, I don't know a good way to say it, but like anything that you do that's like, all right, like writing the book we were talking about before. It's like, okay, I wrote this book. So like my focus was on the book and doing the work and writing the chapters and making the edits and going through the process of making the cover and all this shit. And like, it's a lot of fun and I'm focused and boom, the book is done. And now it's like, Now what fucking book is done? What's next? You know, it's like, all right, I'm over it. You know, like you asked me and most people be like, oh, I wrote a book. This shit is awesome. Yeah, I'm hyped up. I'm excited. But like whatever, like what's you know what I mean? So the same thing with 75. I'd go through the process 75 hard and then I'd get off of it and I'd be like, all right, like I made it because I'm good like that. I'm focused when I need to be focused. My biggest problem is if I could somehow Um, uncover the secret to why I am focused so hard when I'm on a challenge, when I'm not on the fucking challenge, because that's been my hardest thing. Like I work with creatures on the, in the group as, as my fitness coach. And I've been trying to get under 200 pounds for the longest time. Right now I'm at the closest. I'm at like two Oh two. So I have like four pounds. So to him, he's like, yo man. What's to even think about? But somewhere in my mind, I'm like, what is the thing? Like if you gave me a challenge right now, like I even thought about just going on 75 hard just to get there, because I'm like, I know if I get on that, I'll be super focused. I'll do the 75 days. I'll crush it. But I've been trying for the longest time. I haven't done 75 hard now about a year and a half because I had done it two times. I was like, all right, but now I want to figure out how to unlock that part of my life where I can be locked in like that all the time. I don't mean every single day. Without having to structure the program. Yes. Exactly. Exactly. So like, I haven't had an alcohol since my, since my 40th, which was in December. So over six, almost seven months now, alcohol free. That's the first step, right? Like I don't care for drinking. Like, it's like, so how do I structure my life where I went to the gym six days a week? you know, and maybe even walking on the seventh day, maybe not taking a full on break. I'm just trying to focus myself on being the healthiest version of me, but regularly where I'm not like completely deviating, deviating off my plan for two weeks and gaining back seven pounds. Cause that was my biggest challenge. Like you to get down to like 202, get back to 209, 210. And then fuck, I wanted to get back under 200 and I got to work all over again. You know what I mean? you know, cracking that code. And I think that's a big part of what we're talking about here in general, right? With coaching and all these things, like there's a code inside of each one of our minds, in my opinion. It's like, that's why you can hear the same message over and over and over again. And there's going to be that one person that you resonate. They say it almost exactly the same as the guy next to them. But for some reason, that person resonates with you. And I think it's the same thing for me. It's like, which person can click that button that's like, fuck, you know what? You're right. Or one message I hear that flips my brain around. And I think that's the power of these groups. That's the power of the the the arena that we're in with the people we're surrounded by, you know, it's like it takes that one person and then everybody's driving towards something every day, whether they're getting there and another thing. But we're all driving in the same direction. I use this analogy all the time. But if anybody who's ever been in a rowboat, If you have two guys in a rowboat, one guy has the oar on the right, one guy has the oar on the left. And the guy on the right is either paddling faster or the other guy is not paddling at all. The boat just goes in a fucking circle. You have to be rowing that boat in exactly the same direction in order to go straight. And I know this from personal experience because I actually physically did this in the water with a friend and we were in this thing. And I'm trying to get him to be synchronized with me. And we spent two fucking days on a river just literally constantly spinning in circles where everybody's laughing at us. But now I use it as an analogy, because if you are not rowing the boat in the same direction, whether that be in your relationship, your marriage, your partnership, your business, all the things, your life's out of control. 



Jon Mossey32:18 - 34:50
Right. And I think you've got to decide what it is. I think if people stop and ask themselves, what is your identity? What is it that is your identity? That's the thing you got to realize too. Because I think when you start to realize, because 75 hard is great, but you're following the task because the you know, the challenge or the program tells you to do it. But when it's part of your identity, like if I have a client comes to me and they're trying to quit smoking, you know, it's not just a matter of quitting smoking. It's getting them to the people that make the change are the people that say, you know what, you know, I'm my identity is as somebody that is healthy. And part of that identity is not having these habits, is not being a smoker, is not eating like shit, it's exercising. And so, it's doing these habits long enough that they start to become part of you. It's not just I did it or I'm doing it, it's the point where it's like, this is what I am. I am a healthy person. I am this person. They always say, to be the millionaires, who do I have to become? It's having that identity. That's why you can give somebody $20 million in the lottery. They're not going to be a wealthy person. They're probably going to get broke. They're going to squander it because they haven't developed that identity of somebody. They haven't become that person who earns that kind of money and knows how to manage it and knows how to navigate having $20 million. And it's the same kind of thing. We have to develop those kinds of things and become part of our identity. that takes a while, that takes doing a lot of reps over and over again, and, you know, holding yourself to that higher standard, and having those expectations of yourself. And so Tony Robbins talked about that all the time, you got to change your standards day in and day out. And so it's, it has to start coming from within and not coming from these external things, because, you know, external motivation isn't always going to be there, you got to have that intrinsic motivation, you got to be constantly asking yourself, and I know it's cliche, but you got to ask yourself what your why is. You got to ask yourself, what is your meaningful mission? What is the impact? Why am I doing this in the first place? What is my existential goal? What is the imprint that I'm trying to leave on the world? What is it that I'm trying to build for me, for my family, for everybody around me? And those are the questions that you always have to be having circulating in your mind because the external rewards aren't always going to be there. When you're building a business, the money's not always going to be coming in. The accolades aren't going to be coming in. The pats on the back aren't going to be coming in. You know, when you're working out, you're not always going to have the weight loss. You're going to be beating your head against the wall because it's like, Oh fuck, I'm still on that 202 pounds, which I've had the same problem, by the way, trying to get under 200 pounds. 



Greg Michelman34:50 - 34:57
And, uh, I'm glad I'm not the only one now. Now I have an accountability partner. There you go. 



Jon Mossey34:57 - 36:07
And, uh, And it wasn't until I came back from MDM and had a mutual friend of ours, who is a very fit guy, tell me to go on carnivore. And I got on carnivore and within a week, I got under 200 pounds. And so just trying these little things, and I followed it perfectly to a tee for a week. And that's the thing, it's just, it's doing these little fine tweaks and not justifying anything. We make little alterations, little cheats, and we don't follow things 100% by the book. It's those little small things that we try to dismiss and that sometimes hold us up. I'd make excuses, I'd make rationalizations, can't talk right now. But yeah, it's a matter of really following things to a T and then also making sure that you are making this part of your identity and following that to a T. And so you got to ask yourself, what is a healthy person? What are my standards going to be? And it just has to become part of you and anything else, any behaviors or anything else that aren't consistent with that identity that you want to have, you have to phase those out of your behavioral repertoire. 



Greg Michelman36:08 - 39:17
Yeah. I love that. And honestly, I want to go back to, um, as I'm like closing this thing down, it's very important for the listeners and for us to, to talk about something that you just said before, which is not only understanding your why, but like, I think about that for myself too, like with this, with this sub 200 and like my health and why I can't always stay a hundred percent consistent because I fight a lot with myself because I enjoy I enjoy treats. I enjoy my wife and I will go on little road trips and we go to these little coffee shops and we like to enjoy life. The thing is, I know I can enjoy them. I have to learn not to overindulge. But what you said, which is so powerful, is that understanding why it is we're doing what we're doing right, like at the end of the day, why am I trying to get healthy at the end of the day? Why do I care about having a six pack at the end of the day? Why am I trying to build my business up to whatever, you know, number it's going to be like? What does that all look like and why the fuck am I even doing it in the first place? And that's huge. I think, you know, for people listening and for even till this day now, I think about it like, what what is my reasoning? And now that's something that people should be doing right out of the gate. Like you have to figure out what it is you want to do, figure out why you want to do that. And once you become laser focused on that specific thing, it makes everything so much easier, you know. And I even saw Chris, I think he posted about it today, but like, wanting people to win more than they want to win. But I think I looked a little deeper into that. And it's like, I don't think it's a matter of people don't want to win for themselves. They do. But I think they struggle with what you just said. I think they struggle with understanding why the fuck they're doing it in the first place. Why does a person go to the gym seven days a week? You know, unless you're a body. And that's the thing. So when you're a bodybuilder, you know why you want to be a bodybuilder. You have a show coming up. The same thing I was just talking about with Seventy Five Heart. It's like gives me that structure and it gives me those check those boxes to check off to say, OK, I got this done today. I got that done today. That's my accomplishment. It's like the powerless, similar to the powerless. Like, OK, I got to get these five things done today. And when I get those things done, I'm accomplished for the day, whatever I do on top of that as a bonus, like really honing in on what the reason is I'm doing this. You know, and I look back at Sean a lot because he, he was one of my first mentors in my opinion. And it's like, when you see a guy that's building the life that he's building and talking about life the way he is, and then you show up with a six pack at 42, 43 years old. The power to me is internal because you feel healthy, you feel good, your confidence as an all time high, but you're also showing up, you know, as the poster child for everything you're preaching. How can I? It's like all the stuff we talk about. If I was 300 fucking pounds, I couldn't come out here and coach people on living a better life because I'd be living a misery. existence. So I have to remind myself that I'm getting up every day with this goal. And my reasoning for my goal is because I'm telling other people that I'm doing X, Y and Z. They need to be doing X, Y and Z. So I can't be showing up as a miserable, sloppy version of myself and then be taken seriously at the same time. 



Jon Mossey39:18 - 40:20
100%. And that's why you've seen me pounding myself hard in the gym too, because it's credibility. And so people are watching you. And that's the thing, you never know who's watching, because people don't always comment, they don't always post, and people you never even thought were seeing your post, all of a sudden they'll send you a message out of the blue sometimes and be like, oh, thank you for showing me how to do this. But yeah, I mean, you're practicing how you preach and things like your physical fitness are so important. It's not just, you know, obviously the physical health benefits and your labs and everything else. And of course, there's the vanity aspect of it, but you know, your, your physical appearance is, it's like a business card. It's the first thing that people are going to see. And it's the first element of your credibility. And you have two people together that have the same credentials, and one's fit and one isn't. Who are people going to choose? They're going to choose the person who's physically fit, because you're going to see that that person is disciplined in at least one area of their lives. So as coaches, if we're preaching people to be disciplined, and if we're looking fat and out of shape, You know, look like we've been to every bar except the salad bar. 



Greg Michelman40:20 - 40:33
Then it's just you may have been in a salad bar, too, but that shit does not work. It's like buying McDonald's, you know. I got you. 



Jon Mossey40:33 - 40:47
Yeah, maybe the salad bar is not even a good analogy anymore. Back in the day, that was considered the healthy thing. But yeah. But yeah, if you're looking like that, people are going to be like, well, how the fuck is he going to take care of me if he can't even take care of himself? Right. 



Greg Michelman40:48 - 42:46
And I don't care what people say. Like, again, I know you're deeper into the psychology side of things than I am. But I look at somebody who tries. It's like all these like heavy models that they try to put out there. Like no one is going to convince me that these people are happy in their life. Right. Because you're willing to put a fucking bikini on your four hundred pounds and be on the cover of a magazine. You're probably one of the most miserable. You clearly have things going on. Nobody wants to look that way. I'm not knocking people that do. I understand that it's a struggle for people. My point is, you're going out there, you're struggling. My wife and I go to this beach close to my house and there's always this woman. She's in a fucking bikini. She's no business being in a bikini. And again, I'm not telling people what to do, wear what you want, be as confident as you want to be. And however you whatever your skin looks like, I don't care. But I look at people and I'm like, if you really, truly don't care, then I give you all the credit in the world. But I feel and again, this is just me. And this this may just be how I feel. Maybe people don't feel this way, but I feel that. When I feel that way and when I'm not even, I was never really ever super heavy. My heaviest, I was like 250, which is big for me. I'm like five nine. So I was a fairly large guy, but I was always wide in the shoulders and it never really looked as bad. But I always felt terrible about myself physically, at least not mentally, but like physically, I felt like shit. But as you and I both know, when you feel shitty mentally, it rolls down. When you feel shame physically, I'm sorry, it rolls downhill. Everything else starts to compound. Everything else feels shitty in your life. Your confidence is shit. Your ability to go out and hold yourself high. Like right now, my confidence is at an all time high because I'm at one of the lowest. I'm maintaining one of the lowest weights I've ever had. And I'm still dropping. But I'm I'm going to the gym and I feel strong and I'm seeing cuts in my in my body and like I feel good about myself. And it's like, why wouldn't you walk around with your head held high? Yeah, you were in that. Exactly. 



Jon Mossey42:46 - 43:31
You put the work in. You did what you said you were going to do day in and day out. That's, that's where the confidence comes from. It's all you've got and you follow through. And, and so, you know, I mean, and, you know, as far as the people that you see in the magazines that are 400 pounds, I mean, you know, they're like, oh, this is beautiful. And, and, you know, we got beauties in the eye of the beholder. I mean, anybody can call it what they want, beautiful, but where I, it chaps my ass is when they try to call it healthy because that's not fucking healthy. Not at all. And it's like, okay, you're putting yourself at risk for diabetes, for heart disease, for respiratory illness. You're going to need knee replacements and hip replacements and God knows whatever kind of replacements. You're going to have visceral fat that surrounds your organs that is going to make you super unhealthy. And so it's just, 



Greg Michelman43:32 - 43:38
You say it like that, like knocking into the microphone, like, hello, whoever's listening, like you're going to be unhealthy. 



Jon Mossey43:39 - 45:04
And so, I mean, that's the part, so when you're trying to glorify it, and it's like, yeah, I mean, like I said, anybody, it's up to you, what you want to decide is beautiful, but healthy, fucking no fucking way. And it's just, and so promoting acceptance of that, from that regard, you know, it doesn't make, you know, person's worth any less if they're overweight, but, you know, don't try to say it's healthy and don't let people off the hook for that because they still need to take responsibility for changing that because You know, people will make excuses for why they don't take care of themselves and they'll say, oh, well, oh, I'll die, but I'll die happy or, you know, you only live once, but that's bullshit. I work in medical facilities every day and I see people at bedside who didn't take care of themselves. They didn't have the right habits. They weren't disciplined, you know, and here's the thing with discipline. If you have to show restraint now with yourself or later on something or someone else will, you know, they'll take control of your life later on and it'll be too late. So it's better to show the restraint and be disciplined now so that you can have the control later. And so, because I see all these people and, you know, they say they'll die happy. They're not dying happy. They're dying slow, painful, miserable deaths, and they don't have control over anything. And their quality of life is crap. And so, all those justifications, all those rationalizations for why you're not being healthy, 



Greg Michelman45:05 - 48:35
It's an excuse, bro. You know what I mean? It's an excuse. And it's like among many other excuses that people make. I'm one of them. I've made excuses for years. I still do at times. I catch myself now because I've been right flexing that muscle. You know, it's like and that's the other thing for you guys listening. You got to understand something. And you guys have heard me say this before, but. All of this stuff that we talk about is like going to the gym. You have to constantly work and build that muscle up. You have to build the ability to refrain from doing things you were doing before you have to. It's a learned process that you have to go through. It's a step by step process, but it's learned and it can be taught and it can be done. But you already built up so many bad habits over your lifetime, myself included. that I had to reverse engineer a lot of that stuff and then re-engineer my life the way I wanted. So it's like, and I've been doing this work now for six plus years, you know, started right before the den and then I joined the den. But all this hard work and I'm still not anywhere, like I'm still not in the clear with all of it. I'm still, you hear me now, like vulnerability for real. I still work at trying to stay consistent with my diet and make sure I'm eating the foods I'm supposed to eat and I'm staying healthy and I'm taking my supplements and I'm doing the things I'm supposed to do to keep the energy levels up to keep my body where I want it. And so it's it's it's a constant, ever evolving thing. And the reality is, too, like just like in business, You are going to reach your goal. Guess what? Then you just reset. And it's like, OK, what's the next goal? Right. Because you don't want to set the biggest goal right out of the gate. Is it for a lot of people become it feels insurmountable. But if you start setting smaller goals and you reach that goal, it's like, all right, now I have to move the goalpost back. Now I have to move the goalpost. Right. So that's a lot of people in the health side. If you've really hasn't haven't done anything in a couple of years, just taking a 20 minute walk, 10 minute walk is a huge accomplishment. Start with 10 minutes. The next day, add a minute or add 30 seconds, whatever it is. And you slowly build up the muscle and the ability to go further and further and further. And then you lose some weight. And then and the same thing with business. You know what I mean? Most people don't get come out of the gate millionaires. You know what I mean? You have to build that muscle and you have to build like you were talking about the lottery people for why they become broke. Because you haven't built up the tolerance or the understanding of money and how to use it or the comfortability. That's the other thing. There's an identity behind having money. I was broke for the longest fucking time. If I was dead broke and you handed me a million dollars, there's almost a guarantee that money would have been gone. And I probably wouldn't have spent most of it in any good ways whatsoever because I hadn't even understood money. I didn't understand what to do with it. Same thing with business, same thing with fitness, same thing with your relationship, same thing with everything. You have to work at this stuff to learn it and to become proficient at it, where 10 years down the road, you're crushing it at all levels of your life. That's why you have to focus on those four, those four important aspects of your life. You know, it's like the chair. If you only work on three and the fourth one's weak, the chair falls, working at all four of these areas of your life at all times. And again, you don't have to knock it out of the park on each one every fucking time, but you have to be putting small amounts of effort into each one, at least at first, until like guys like us are doing this now for a while. when it becomes normal to work on my body, it becomes normal to go to the gym, it becomes normal to have a morning routine, it becomes normal to have a good marriage, it becomes normal to have the things in your life because I've been working at it, you know? It becomes a habit. 



Jon Mossey48:35 - 50:07
They say it takes 66 plus days for something to become a habit. 66 days is like the sweet spot they found for, you know, number of days doing something consecutively for it to be considered a habit. That's why 75 hard is so powerful. And you do these things often enough. When something becomes a habit, it starts taking up less bandwidth in your mind, less conscious thought, and it just becomes an automatic thing for you to do. Working out six days a week now, like I do, I work out Monday through Saturday, and I usually take, like you were saying earlier, I'll take Sunday off or active recovery where I maybe go for a run or a walk or something like that. I don't miss, you know, Jeff Theorell is my fitness coach and I send him things, you know, I send him my stuff every day. I don't miss a workout because it's just an automatic thing for me. It's part of my day and not doing that is It's as weird as not eating or not brushing your teeth or just these basic things that we do. It's something that's just part of the routine that's so ingrained now that it's something I don't think about. When you don't have to think about it anymore and it's not taking up real estate in your mind, that's bringing up that real estate in your mind for growth, for expansion, for trying new things. And so that's why they say discipline is freedom because you're freeing up your mind to explore and expand and for growth. And that's the powerful thing about all this. And it's just letting it become part of your identity. And for you and me, it's just become part of our identities now and it's automatic. It wasn't like that. It took us years to get to that point, but now it's just, it's something that's automatic. It's just, it's part of who we are. 



Greg Michelman50:12 - 51:06
Yeah, man, I love it. I really do. And I think this is a powerful episode, you know, and it covers so many different areas. But always it always at the end of these, like I'm able to hammer home to people like it really just is work. You know, everybody wants the easy button. The truth is, the easy button doesn't exist. If it did, everybody would be in shape. If it did, everybody would be a millionaire. And if it did, everybody would be happy. The truth is, It takes work, man. But it's work that can be done. You're a well-educated man, and I appreciate that about you. On the flip side, I'm not. I'm a street guy. I came up hard for a lot of my life. But even me, I can still do it. And so the point is, no matter where you are in the spectrum, no matter where you are in your life, You can make your life happen however you want. You're you're the ruler of your you write your own story. You know what I mean? You're the director of your own movie. 



Jon Mossey51:06 - 51:13
And that's the heart of the hero of your own story, too. You know, you're the hero of your own story, too, if you want to be. 



Greg Michelman51:13 - 51:42
If you want to be. Some people choose to be the villain in their own story, but don't be. Or the value is you have all the cards laying right in front of you. It just takes action to start making it happen and surround yourself with the right people. My brother, I really appreciate this, man. It was a lot of fun. I mean, for you and I, we can probably do this thing for hours. Let's be real. But at some point, we got to we got to cut it to an end. I would like you to let everybody know kind of where they can find you. And I'll post all your stuff anyway in the show notes, but let people know where they can find you and connect with you. 



Jon Mossey51:43 - 52:56
Absolutely. Well, right now you can find me on Facebook. My Facebook got hacked recently, but so temporarily my Facebook is Doc Jon. It formerly was Jon Mossey. I'm trying to get that one back, but for now it's Doc Jon, D-O-C-J-O-N. And on Instagram at the underscore doc underscore Jon, J-O-N. And my personal website is and currently hosting an event, a speaking event in October called Indomitable Mind here in Tampa Bay on October 14th. It's going to be a very powerful event that's dedicated to mindset and having a resilient mind for this day and age. Since we are going into winter economically in the last couple of years have really showed how weak people's internal mental game really is. They don't have external things to sedate with and to distract themselves with and so having that resilient mind. It's an event that's geared towards young professional, young middle-aged professionals and entrepreneurs and for really optimizing your mindset and just having that indomitable mindset going forward. And yeah, that's gonna be October 14th, and you can find out more information and purchase tickets for that at 



Greg Michelman52:56 - 52:59
Amazing. You have a podcast too, don't you? 



Jon Mossey52:59 - 53:33
Absolutely, yes. What's that? I also posted the Redemption Road podcast, and that can be found on Spotify and Apple. And on Redemption Road, I interview high performers to hear about the life hacks and strategies they've used to overcome the worst of obstacles and setbacks, you know, bankruptcy, divorce. trauma, et cetera, to become high performers and go on to live lives of thriving and abundance and hear about how they overcame those things and what they're doing for the world now and on a high level and helping people by sharing their message. 



Greg Michelman53:34 - 53:56
Love it. If you guys are listening, man, you got to connect with this dude. I'm telling you, he's the real deal. He's got a lot of irons in the fire, but smart as hell. Sweetheart of a human being. Definitely knows his stuff. So again, my brother, I appreciate you coming on, man. This was a blast. And we may end up having to do a, you know, a follow up, a number two to this sometime down the road, because I could definitely continue with this conversation all day. 



Jon Mossey53:57 - 54:06
I would love to pick up this conversation anytime, my brother. This was an absolute blast and an honor to be on here. And yeah, I appreciate you and proud to run with you, brother. 



Greg Michelman54:06 - 54:18
A hundred percent. You as well. You guys, you know what to do. Hit that five star review, man. Let me know how we're doing over here. You know, I'm just trying to bring you the best content I possibly can. Thank you guys for tuning in. I appreciate you. 



Intro/Outro54:22 - 54:38
Thanks so much for tuning into this episode. If you haven't done so already, make sure you're subscribed to the show. That way you'll get notifications as new episodes become available. And remember, it's never too late to trade the life you have for the life you were born to live. Until next time.